Yash Poojary on automating growth experiments at Every

We generated the largest subscription revenue increase in Everest history last week. We did it by launching this thing called the Builder Pack. Basically, we partnered with a bunch of the AI tools we use every day. And subscribers to the Builder Pack get discounts and credits to those tools. So $1,000 in Codex credits, 12 months of free cursor access, all that kind of stuff. The Pwner Pack is awesome, but I think the actual story behind it, like how we did it, why we did it, how it generated so much revenue, is really interesting. For this episode, I had the team who worked on the Builder Pack. Everything from conception all the way to the full executioner launch. Come to the show to share how we did it and what we learned. I hope you like it. Hello everyone and welcome to AI&I. This is a slightly different version of the pod today where we've got myself, Yash, Austin and Douglas here and we're missing Daniel.

We're going to be taking you on a journey today, introducing you to all access in the Builder Pack. And this is a new tier at every that we decided to launch recently. And we would just want to talk about why we decided to build it, why it's important, how we use it, and what it means to be a builder today. All of us are builders and use these tools every day. Yeah, hopefully by the end of this, there'll be like one nugget that you can take out of this and use in your everyday. So I guess like to introduce us or to introduce this pod, first, I'm going to introduce AllAxess.

We launched it Tuesday on the 14th. It was a big launch for us. big endeavor across the whole company. All Access is a new tier. At every, it's a $625 annual plan that gives you access to the Builder Pack, which is 10 benefits, exclusive benefits from all AI companies that you know and love. that enable you to go build and adopt some of these tools in ways that you may not have been able to before. And all access includes a couple other things. It includes access to office hours that we're hosting that are exclusive to all access members, unlimited use of Quora and Spiral.

And we have a couple other things up our sleeve that we're going to be launching in the next few months as well. But we really want to talk about the Builder Pack because that's like... probably the meat of all access. And the Builder Pack is 10 soon to be more exclusive benefits to AI tools that the Every Team uses every day so that you can get access to these tools and use them, you know, for free for a while and get comfortable with using them in your stack. It's it's it's early access, exclusive access to the every stack.

This is the team that brought it to life. All right. Yeah. Sure. Do you use the builder back? Yeah. Context. I'm Yash. I run one of the projects. Yeah. Yeah. Who are you? Who are? Who am I? Well, I ask that my ask myself that every day, but I run one of the products at every call Sparkle and I also work on the growth team now. A large part of my work is using Claude. I know at every, we are like codex stands, but I'm still very Claude. I've been using Claude for the last one year. And this involves like, I built out the entire product, like I think 15, rebuild Sparkle 15 times using Claude, and PostHog.

So those are the tools I reach out for the most. And recently I joined the growth team at Avery. and growth meant a lot of A-B testing, a lot of segmentation and other stuff. And again, I started optimizing post-hog, but I find it really annoying to open dashboards and set a lot of these things up. And that's where my setup with Cloud helps a lot, where I have custom skills built out. And essentially, my plan is in the next few weeks, to automate the entire A-B testing pipeline. Like a lot of the work that I spent doing for the first one month at the growth team, I'm like, this is very boring because it's very straightforward.

Like I should be working on interesting, more interesting problems and I should not be, clicking buttons and figuring out what's the right audience size and stuff like that. Like Claude is so much better at that. I have to prompt it, I have to figure it out, okay, what's the right audience size? When should an experiment go from of 10% A-B testing cohort to 50%. Like, why should I be doing that manually? It's, I feel it's a lot of fake work. And we like to spend a lot of time observing these things, like setting up an experiment every time. Felt so boring to me. I'm like, the only way I can set up, do more experiments is automating the entire pipeline.

So I spend a lot of time, So what's interesting to you is less actually the work. The work is no longer setting up the pipeline to be able to do it. What should I test? Yeah. And then did it work? Great, implemented. What's the next test? Yeah. I should be, like, I'm more interested in the ideas. Like, oh, should we do a homepage takeover? Yeah. Who should we show that homepage takeover to? Versus actually setting that up is not that interesting. Like, we have so many experiments live right now, which is, like, when should we cut off the paywall? When should we show the paywall? Those are way more interesting, and those are also, like, more... human psychology and I can I have more fun doing that and I personally feel like a large part of our work at every is like everyone is very secure in what they do and so we are okay with automating our jobs like I spent one month doing these things and I'm like okay I'm done like I want to do other things now

and if it was some other organization, I'm gonna try to stretch this out for like a year. Like what I did. You wanna move on to the next thing that you can tackle. Yeah, because that's fun and that's why we are always at the edge of AI. Like we are like, yeah, this is done guys. Like what's next? Like what's more interesting? Okay, is there a better model for this? Yeah. So what in the builder pack do you use? every day? Every day it's Cursor. I use Cursor because they have cloud agents which are really good. We did a lot, a bunch of Fable 5 optimizations because I was working on some other tasks. I did not want to mess with my setup. So cloud agents just spin off a cloud server and run there and get me the results back.

And they have a really good open source model, which is really cheap, like QB Composer, which I love. So that's something I use. I use Framer a lot as well while I was building the Sparkle site. It has good MCP support so I could change the headlines, experiment more directly without actually going into Framer and setting. It's very annoying to me. I'm setting a lot of these things up, the right font size for mobile and stuff like that. I used to do this 20 years back. Like today I should not be spending my time on these things. And I would say CloudMax is my go-to.

Like I feel it's insane. Yeah, that's my stack and post-hoc. Yeah, I use a lot of these products, but It's so cheap. Like, I feel that CloudMax subscription is really underrated. Like, I'd pay way more for it. Right. I couldn't work without it. Right. Anthropic. I hope no one from Anthropic is watching this. Get the deal, guys. Get the Builder Pack. Yeah. I like the way Yash is describing one potential approach to work, which is like there's this there's this approach to being a general manager in the NBA, which is like just keep trading for future draft picks to be like we're on an eight year time horizon for contention.

And there is for someone as like skilled as Yash at engineering, go to market engineering growth. You can use these tools, this stack that he has to to like. operate at the same level and like a set it and forget it mode and kind of i would be like well yash like i i run the growth team i look at what yash is doing i'd be like yash ships another experiment and it like moves the needle by two percent i guess he's on it and like he knows how to set up that that clod code and post hog loop but the way that he works instead which is exciting is that after he does that

He looks at how can we win right now? How can I be creative and competitive to find the next thing? And how can I use these always-on loop and architecture-based automations to make it so that... Yash can do the thing that lights him up, which is I can see Yash in Slack being like, oh, what if we made a three-hour time-constrained discount specifically targeted to these users using this video, building this thing in Framer? And that's this kind of stuff has always been the case, right? Like that work is the most fun way to work. It's how smart, creative people are able to differentiate themselves.

But I think that the builder pack allows is that it allows someone like Yash to create. Automate and defer a lot of the work to cloud agents. He would have otherwise had to manually click in post dog or manually code himself. And then he can go be creative on the space where he is an expertise. And then it also allows someone like me who doesn't know what the fuck any of that stuff is, but kind of is naturally more of an ideas person to give the model and the SaaS tools in the builder pack my outcomes and ideas. And then just like let it run, which is like the craziest part for me.

Like I, I let go. Can you tell that story of you had an idea for something, you went to bed, you woke up, you had four emails. Yeah, so it wasn't even my idea. We did the BuilderPack launch on Tuesday. It was going really well. I'm on the West Coast. Most of the team is on the East Coast. As they were getting ready to go to bed, Yash dropped a note in Slack saying, hey, we should send emails in the morning to... a group of users who have shown some sort of checkout intent, but not converted because we were running a early bird discount for the first 24 hours of launch.

So it's like we should probably hit them again with some sort of urgency backed approach. And then Yash said, this isn't actually my idea. It's Dan's idea, but I'm sharing it. And then they all signed off and it was maybe like 7 p.m. here. I had been in front of my computer all day. And I really wanted to go to the gym. And so I took a screenshot of the Slack because it was like a bunch of different Slack messages. Usually I would just like copy paste the link to the Slack message and send it to Codex. I took a screenshot of the Slack. I dropped it in a Codex thread using 5.6 on Medium. It's like usually what I operate in. And I said, can you do this?

And then I did splash LFG, which is the harness in our compound engineering plugin to tell an agent to take itself through a brainstorm plan work review compound loop, which is like, to me, the ideal way to work with agents. And then I went to the gym. And I came back from the gym. And what I saw in Codex was it works for honestly not that long. Like it probably finished by the time that I like changed into my workout clothes at the gym because it like didn't actually need to do that much. And it had created four different audience based cohorts, like targeted cohorts in kits.

based on like these people got to the checkout page. These people visited the BuilderPack website, but didn't check out. These are our highest engaged for users. There's like four different types. It drafted specific emails for each of those audience types. It ran the text for the emails through the MCP for our AI based writing app called Spiral. So it's using a writing style that we've approved. It looked through all of our previous sends in Kit, both for our language style as well as what had driven click throughs, what had driven opens.

It grabbed a social share image that had driven click throughs in a previous send and embedded it, and it had scheduled it for the next morning. And it's crazy because I wasn't like, holy shit, that's so cool. I was like, that's basically what it should do. Like, my brain is so cooked on this stuff now that I'm like, this is literally exactly what I expected. I think it did something. I think it then posted it in all emails. Yeah, I have an automation in there that it like, so we have a Slack channel called All Emails. If you're a subscriber to every, I'm sorry, we send you a lot of emails. I swear we're working on it. One step towards working on it is having a channel where, one, we build all of our email sends through Codex or Cloud Code and can have the agent push a Slack message

saying, here's what's going to be sent to whom and why. And then they can get a review of, you know, should we actually send this to this audience at this time? So it sends that as well, and the team can review it and know what's up. But I pulled up these four email sends. And I made very light tweaks, partially because I was like, oh, I think I can write like a slightly better headline. And also partially because I'm still a control freak who doesn't want to turn over every single thing to AI. I was like, let me, you know, let me like put a little bit of spice on this. But I maybe spent 10 minutes of extra work on it when I came back from the gym. Um, and then we, we scheduled them and we, we let it rip.

And in, in a couple hours, the next morning, those emails alone had driven more than $25,000 in revenue. Um, it had driven like multiple conversions. It suggested things we could do to retarget the audience that didn't convert. Um, and like two nice things happened. Like one, I got to go to the gym, which is great because otherwise I would have sat there building these, these emails. Um. And two, like at the gym, not looking at my phone, not looking at Slack, I had other ideas for stuff we could do the next day, right? Like disconnected from being in the weeds, I'm like working out and I'm like, oh, yeah, we should like we should do this experiment and that experiment because I don't have to use my brain and my fingers to like.

uh, click around in post-dog, which I, which I love using, but I don't have to click around in post-dog to like find the exact right audience segment to, to target. That's, it's just so crazy. Like to go from here's an idea to go do this idea using slash LFG to actually like executing on what it created in this case, sending these emails. to generating $25,000 in revenue, which doesn't happen every time you do slash LFG, but like that is, you know, sort of a possibility to then compounding what you learned and also it recommending like what to do next.

It's just like remarkable that, you know, like 5.6 soul is expensive, but like relative to the value that you got out of that, it's like nothing. And best of all, you went to the gym and like took care of yourself. And that's, it's just like remarkable that you can do that. You can, if you're really hard to seeing these tools well for work and for life, I use it as my trainer at the gym. It's, it can be very fulfilling and, and, and like so effective. Yeah, I feel it allows you to get better at things you want to really get better at. It frees up more time.

To give an example, people are always pitching growth ideas to us. Like, hey, do this, do this. And to be really honest, those are good ideas, but I don't want to take away time from doing my main thing and spend time on that. And that entire thing should be automated because A, the idea is good. We should not hire an engineer just to implement that particular idea. So I feel we have these tool sets like if I have a workflow set up, hey, let's try this particular headline on our website. It should be like you should be that should be automated. Yeah. And I feel we can that's the goal. Like I have more time to do like deep work. Yeah. And be in my flow state and without really compromising these things.

Like building that loop is me being in the flow state. Yeah. Versus like, hey, try this, try this, try this. And I think the thing where we're like circling around is like, this is the best way to build right now, which is to, you know, Kieran, our colleague has described it this way. You're at the top and bottom of the AI sandwich. You decide what the problem is, you frame the idea, and then you review the work. That's been the case for a while. But the exciting thing about this moment, the exciting thing about being able to use the tools in the builder pack is that you can go from idea to execution

quickly, easily, reliably, and at like a very high level by being able to just like type or with monologue any speech to text tool like we use just to be able to say the idea and have it come out. And the thing that I really like about this, the way I like working is that whether you're primarily a Claude user like Yash or a Codex user like me, The tools all now speak together really, really well and connect to each other really well. Notion is a great example of this. I have hated Notion for years because my brain doesn't work in that way of like, I'm going to like organize this database and I'm going to make sure that like the growth.

It's a lot of work for work. Yeah, yeah. Like, I think up until a year ago, Notion was had had too much of a like, of a barrier to entry on like organization and maintenance that anytime I've tried to use Notion with a with a team, we've churned because no one's around to maintain it. And all of that maintenance has now been pushed off to Codex and Cloud Code. Once a week, I just asked Codex and I'm like, hey, can you reorganize our growth hub? And it does it perfectly. It's like amazing. Or it's like, hey, make sure this database is set up well. My favorite example of this is while I was doing the this kind of like in the weeds codex work, like when I work with codex, I'm like steering it and going back and forth with it.

Claude and Claude code in the desktop app using Fable. I had the videos were releasing attached to this launch. all connected through Descript and the Descript MCP. And Fable is just running in a loop, building out the edits for all of those videos and reviewing its work and interacting with Underlord, the Descript AI tool, because I'm not a video editor. Like, I'm actually really bad at it, but sometimes that falls under my responsibilities. And that can run in a loop so that when I go to edit the video, By no means has Fable and Descript created a video that is publishable, but it has gotten me like 70% of the way there while I'm steering Codex, Cloud Code and Fable and Descript have gotten it there so that I can go and I'm like, oh, I know what to do now.

Like I see the pieces, it like, it does this crazy stuff where it takes the transcript, makes a storyboard, makes a script itself, and then like pieces the video together. So I just have to do like a few tiny things to get us to a final product. You already know how AI is changing how everyday work gets done, how much ground you can cover, and how fast a team can scale. To stay ahead, you need tools that give you a competitive advantage built for this new era. Adio is the CRM for the agent-native world. It meets you where you work, compounds every customer signal into context, and then acts on it across your pipeline to let you move at unmatched speed and scale. With agents and automations for every job, Adio orchestrates your work around the clock.

We use it internally at Every and we love it. It's built to handle the scale of your workloads. It's extensible with an API and MCP access and is built with infrastructure to keep up with your most ambitious agents. It's loved by high growth startups like Granola, Modal, Whisperflow, and Every. Adio runs the work behind EveryWin. That's Adio, the agentic CRM. Go to adio.com slash every and get 15% off your first year. That's adio.com slash every. And now back to the episode. I think the thing that I love about the builder pack specifically is I feel like a lot of the time at every we're telling people like go build, go build. It's the best time in the world to build.

There's no excuses. Be the builder you want to be. And that's great. But how it's, well, one is how, which is like, you should subscribe to every we will teach you how, but two is this stuff is expensive. the stack that you use, Austin, the stack that you use, Yash, Douglas, myself, it's very expensive. We spend a lot of money at every on AI and credits. And last night we had an event in the office and a friend of mine's younger brother, I invited him to come. He's an engineer. And he's trying to figure out how to get a job as an engineer right now.

Even though he is an engineer, he's really struggling to get a job. And he's not using AI at all. Yeah. And I introduced him to some people that were like telling them how they work. And then at the end of it, he was like super excited. And then these people were telling them like how much money their companies enable them to spend on AI. Some guy, you know, he's like a single engineer, spent 30 grand last month. And this guy like, you know, I could see him like visually like gulp while he was like, how am I going to, discover this technology when it's like prohibitively expensive as an, and I'm an individual, I'm not at a company right now.

And the thing that I love about the builder pack is it is, You know, I think the codec, the OpenAI benefit is like a great example of this because you're getting three months free of OpenAI and codecs and $1,000 in overage credits. But the three months free includes... I don't know what the number is anymore, $5,000 of value. These subscriptions, just like our Anthropic benefit, they include so much spend inside of a small subscription. So, I mean, it's the same thing for basically OpenAI, Cursor, Gemini, and Anthropic, those offerings because they're model companies.

Okay, it's one month, excuse me. The one month offering. You can use the Codex credit. You can use the Codex credit for three months. It's so much value that you then get to go experiment with this technology so that you can be the builder that you want to be. I use them all the time. My stack, I mean, the Builder Pack is basically everything that we use at every... Personally, I'm in OpenAI, Anthropic. I'm more of like a consumer of PostHog than I am like a user of like their AI credits. You're always in Notion. I'm a big Notion user because I do like a lot of ops, framer user, render, and I really like experimenting with the Flora MCP.

So, I mean, I'm kind of all over the stack. My biggest use is obviously the model companies and just doing my work inside of Claude or Codex. I mean, ironically, a lot of these tools, almost all of these tools, if they aren't a model company themselves, I'm utilizing them through a model company. I'm never really ever going into their tool. Even Flora, which has a remarkable tool, I only ever use it through the MCP. Yeah. And it doesn't devalue those tools. It actually, like, to me, it incentivizes those, like, SaaS operators to be the very best at the thing they do.

I think a lot of us went through a moment from, like, January to March where we were like, let's go. We're building our own CRM. We're building our own, like, data dashboards. We're going to, like, do design all ourselves. man, this fucking sucks. Right. And, um, when you're able to sit there and be like, you know what, I, I really trust post-dog to both run and automate my analytics. I really trust notion to have this like source of truth for the entire business. And even if I never opened it up, even if my pages and my databases look incomprehensible to a human, it doesn't really matter. Right. because when I'm sitting in Cloud Code or Codex, I can, which I do all the time, I'm like, hey, I need to make this plan, I need to do this thing, at Notion, at Slack, at PostHog, find the necessary information.

That's one reason why this suite of tools is so powerful right now, is that the leap from 5.5 to 5.6 came with this improvement in the model's ability to go find the context it needs to do work well, and then to maintain that context through any amount of compaction that happens as it works over a long term. That happens through... The way in which if you looked at my prompts in Codex, you would be like, I think this guy doesn't know what the hell he's doing, because I'm usually just like, hey, look at look at all this stuff. Create a goal for yourself and use compound engineering.

And I'm like, go. It's like barely any thought or work. The thought or work comes from like, I've identified this is the thing to do. And I know that either I or my team have set up the harness that the agents can work inside of to be trusted. And I think to a lot of people that sounds like tough. It sounds like a lot of work. But the reason that we've gotten there from every is... We've done it incrementally, right? It's like we did one thing and it started to work. Okay. I've been trying to automate these marketing email sends for months, and it keeps getting a little bit better. And through compound engineering, the results keep compounding.

So the project I work inside of keeps getting a better understanding of it. And it kind of goes back to like the best time to start doing this was, you know, a year ago. The second best time is right now. You can start this compounding flow right now with models that have really caught up to how quickly you can work yourself. Yeah. I'm curious to know, Douglas, what's your stack? Because you're the creative director behind this. And someone asked me, like, this branding is very different from every's branding. So, like, why is it green? I'm like, okay, I'm going to ask you. Yeah. Why is it green, Douglas?

I think it's green partly because we haven't used green that much yet in our brand world. But, you know, I think what's interesting that all of you are describing and that I've learned in my short few months I've been here at Every is... I think language is very interesting and I find the way the model companies name themselves and their new models very interesting. A lot of it is very literary. It's, you know, Codex is a book. There's haiku, sonnet, fable, right? These are all stories or forms of putting words together. But the term people use for agents is orchestration. And it feels a lot more like music to me. And I'm not super musical, but I think everyone in their job

kind of played a few instruments and it now feels like we can all take a step back without knowing how to play the rest of the instruments in the orchestra, we can conduct it. Right. And as long as we understand what, what the piece needs to sound like, and then, you know, you take that and you compound it onto, you can be conducting a lot of different orchestras at the same time. And Creative direction, I think, and kind of brand strategy is a lot of famous, you know, designers have described it as being like a maestro. And you have color, type, shapes, symbols, forms, words, you know, systems, photography a lot of the time, illustration styles.

And how do you kind of conduct all of these pieces together to sing a song that sounds beautiful? And... I feel like this stack is that for working with AI, and it's applicable to a lot more than just the highly technical work. Right. So I certainly use it for knowledge work. And to answer your question, I do like Flora, so I can talk more about Flora because I'm probably the deepest in Flora. You know, I've learned here too also, and I think Austin touched on this, like what to use Claude for, what to use Codex for. And being able to, I think, use both of them through... You know, I've also built out kind of a set of marketing skills that I can use with compound engineering that really helps shorten the timeline on something like research.

When you're trying to come up with strategy, you need to have data that backs, you know, an insight or a hunch that you have. Do I, do I think that the tools come up with the insight particularly well? Not always, sometimes they do, but you can then give it the insight and say, prove this out, you know, what direction should we be taking this? Here's the competitive set. It's really good at competitive auditing. especially if you build a skill for it. And it can compound on that and just, you can say, push more, I want pricing, I want language, I want what colors these brands use. And you take that, you can feed it into a system and have a really, really sharp strategic lens in like, you know, hours or less, as opposed to what used to be a several week long process, frankly, with humans researching.

And then from there, If you have an eye towards what you want to create, using a tool like Flora is really helpful because again, like similar to Austin, I feel I'm not a technical designer either, but I can, I've been mood boarding for 15 years. You can now like productize a mood board, especially if you have the right prompt and you can use Claude to write the prompt for you, put it into Flora, right? Or use the MCP as Brandon does. and have it take a set of reference images. I often have it analyze the images and kind of say, like, what am I doing here? You know, and it'll be interesting. It might say something like with Builder Pack, this is very high contrast.

You know, to your note about green, I think this is in a way our most... explicitly technical kind of facing audience that we've been speaking to in terms of the BuilderPack. Like this is for people that are really ready to start experimenting with all of these tools. And it feels a little bit more matrixy and digital than a lot of the more Greco-Roman and kind of heritage driven elements of the EveryBrand. So, you know, all of those were decisions that these tools helped us kind of land on in terms of the aesthetic of everything and also helped us design the website. Right. So it's it's pretty cool to be able to. It's a mind shift for me, a mindset shift of moving from playing the instrument to orchestrating.

And when you learn how to get one group singing and playing, you move on to the next one and you can conduct lots of pieces at once. And that's what I find. you know, I'm just beginning to use, um, like have everything plug into Notion, right? Super helpful. And to Austin's point, you can just be like, look in Notion, find this thing, do this for me, you know, compound, whatever it may be. And it has all the relevant context. Cause it's been updated. Cause someone else on the team has automated it to update itself. And I think the way you work as an organization also then just gets like, you know, souped up to a crazy degree because we're all orchestrating at the same time and it kind of pumps.

So yeah, it's been really exciting for me to work with these tools and apply them to, you know, it is the sandwich. You have to put a lot of work in at the beginning is what I've found in terms of really doing some metacognition and figuring out like, how do I think about this? What is my process? And then once you've kind of codified that, these tools can run with it and you can ask them for help. if you don't know why something happened, which I find very revelatory. Yeah, it's remarkable when people are like, well, how do I use it? It's like, well, what are you trying to accomplish? And then they say that, and I'm like, great, just say that again.

I think a good final thing here is like, if we're... If we're thinking we're speaking directly to people who either like just got access to the tools in the builder pack or like thinking about it, like this has been a lot of kind of like higher level thinking about how to work with a few examples. Like, I think each of us saying like, say you have access to all the stuff in the builder pack and you're like. what do I do now? Right? Like, what would each of you recommend someone do, whether it's one specific thing to try or one like mentality approach to take? If someone is like a brand new builder, I think we can go around and do that.

Um, I, I, if I was, uh, if I had just got the builder pack and I'm just like getting my feet wet right now with, with building, um, I think the first thing I would do is if you're like really early on, sometimes the hardest part about building is knowing what to build. And you can like just sit at your computer and be like, looking for a problem is the worst way to find a problem. Going for a walk is also like not an effective way to like, find a problem, you need to like, that is a habit that you can build where you can like identify problems in your life. Well, because usually we're just like so numb to those problems.

So if I'm new to building and I'm new to the builder pack, the very first thing I would do is like pick something simple that I really, really love, like a product that I really love and dupe it. I would just make it myself. The very, very simplified MVP version of that and use... basically as many parts of the builder pack as I possibly could. So like I would launch it on render and use the render credits. I would plug in post hog so that I could actually like maybe build in the loop or use some of post hogs, traditional products where I can just like actually track how I use it, how my friends use it.

I would build it using anthropic using Claude, using codex, using cursor, I might actually use some AI in that product. You know, even if it's a product that doesn't include AI, I might figure out how to do that. I might use Flora to actually, like, create some unique icons or graphics. But I would just dupe something. Because what I find when I dupe things, at least early on when I was duping, I would get started with the process of making it and very quickly I'd be like, I don't like that feature. I don't like that version of this thing.

And I'm going to, very quickly it's not duping. It's like inspiration and you're off making your own thing. So I would, if I'm new to the builder pack, I would dupe something and I would look through the builder pack and be like, which one of these things can I actually start using in this build? and not question yourself for a second, just start doing it. I mean, that's that's like the hardest part. Sometimes it's just like the first the first prompt. Yeah, I I find that like one, I think everyone learns, learns everything in different ways, but especially like learns how to become a builder in different ways. I think some people really want to like understand what's happening and other people just want to like go and ship and learn from what doesn't work.

The thing that works best for me was, okay, I have like, I actually have a lot of ideas for what I might want to do. Of the ideas I might want to do, let me pick the one that I'm the most excited about, which for me was this like movie app that's like Fandango for indie movies. I was like, this doesn't exist. Yeah. If this worked, this would make my life a lot better. I would be so stoked. Like one thing that I think is a good prompt to yourself is like, what would you be the most excited to text someone? Like, hey, I made this right. Like, what would make you feel really good to do that? And I would actually really encourage people to try to make not to necessarily make like a complex app for the same complexity, but try to make something you don't think you can and try to make an app to start because you're going to learn so much through that process.

Like in doing that process to make this like web app that is now live that a lot of my friends use every week now. I never done any of this stuff before. And then it's taking you through like, oh, yeah, you need to connect render. You need to go through Google OAuth, like whatever. Because it's a thing that you're so passionate and excited about and you want to get to the end, it quickly starts to feel like you're playing a video game and like trying to get to the next level. And I do think Brandon's point about like, okay, to start, um... connect the agent, whether it's cursor, Claude or Codex to the tools in the Builder Pack and any tools that you have access to, to be like, you can connect it all and be like, hey, you have all this stuff, the agent will figure out where to go.

But I think driving towards that goal of, I'm going to make something great that I'm like excited to text a friend like, hey, go, go try it. And along the way, you'll realize like, oh, it actually works. That's crazy. It's so exciting that it works. But like the design looks like ass, like how do I make the design better? And like you can sit and work with that. You can read every for some inspiration for design. You can go use it to check stuff. But that would be my best recommendation. And that's worked really, really well for me. And then I've learned from... seeing the v1 shift that the agent comes up with and being like okay that's not good enough let me figure out how to get it to a to a v2 i have a good specific one uh for marketers writers designers creative technologists uh product designers i think to brandon's point i know your problem and it's probably your portfolio

And this is a wonderful stack to rebuild your portfolio. And it's something that I think everybody kind of hates their portfolio site, but you need it. And you, to Austin's point, probably have a dream version of it in your head. You can use Brandon's duping kind of strategy here, too, if you see a site that you really like and you want to try and mimic it. Or you can come up with something from scratch and write the brief for what you're looking for there. Put in the references. and give it to Codex or Claude connected to all of these different tools. And, you know, take that on as a project. I think it's a really enriching thing to do because most people

have so much work that you're not liking the way you've potentially merchandised it to the world. And maybe you want more interactivity or different types of visuals. You can use these tools to create something really, really striking that you feel good about. And that also potentially helps you get more work or a better job or whatever else it is you're looking for. And it kind of also proves out that you're AI native, right? So I think that's a great project for anyone that's creative or has even a personal experience. you know, side hustle or small business that they're running, try and do something like that that's impactful right away. Because you can also get people responding to it. You know, to Austin's point, right, his app, hey, his friends use it now, right?

People can actually use this thing, they can see it, they can tell you how great it is. And that's very encouraging, as you begin to work with AI, in my experience, at least. Yeah, that's cool. Yeah. I feel to second that, like, or to close it out, what I would do is I would use the, I would use cursor with render. And what I realized, my mind was blown when I used cursor cloud agents with Kimi K25, which is an open source model, which cursor improved. I would say dupe something. use cursor cloud agents and use different models. I feel right now, if this is what you're going to be doing, you need to find your favorite model.

And with cloud agents, you can have 10 agents running. And we have like the pro plus plan. This is above pro. So you're good in terms of like spend and stuff like that. And I would use render to deploy it and actually see which model you like working with. Like I'm so picky about my models that even if a new model drops, I don't change to that because if I have some preference, I'll test it out. You need to have like, we have evals for like, you know, if a model is doing better or worse, you need to have your personal taste in terms of what you like and what you not dislike. And I think cloud agents are a very underrated way to find out like, what do you like to build and just start to feel that out.

Cool. In terms of like what's next for All Access, I think we have some cool stuff coming. I mean, in the next few days, week, we're probably gonna drop two more partners that are pretty sick, benefits. And I think that like something that's really compelling for our readers I've found is Like now they have access to these benefits. You guys have access to these benefits, but like the guides on how to use each one are people love that. Yeah. So I think that like, probably what we're going to do next is for each one of these benefits, you have like amazing value that you can go capture by, by, by using them.

But how can we pair that with a guide that you can probably just plug into one of your agents that like. leapfrogs you ahead with using whatever this net new technology is that you now have access to. So I feel like guides, like some cool camps for each one of these partners is going to be like probably something that we'll do. To be fair, I've never read one of our guides. I dropped the guide into Codex and I say like, use this to help build the next thing we're doing. And I would recommend everyone do the same. And yeah, I think the best way to think about it All access, but also like how to best take advantage of an every membership is that we are going to keep adding partners to the builder pack that we're excited to use when the year is up because you, you, you know, you get these as part of the yearly subscription.

We're going to try to fill it up with more stuff that y'all are excited to use. And there's a lot more perks coming to get excited about that will help you build. Awesome. I think now we're handing it off to Dan's outro. So Dan, take it away. Thanks, Dan. Thank you. Oh my gosh, folks, you absolutely positively have to smash that like button and subscribe to AI and I. Why? Because this show is the epitome of awesomeness. It's like finding a treasure chest in your backyard, but instead of gold, it's filled with pure unadulterated knowledge bombs about chat GPT. Every episode is a roller coaster of emotions, insights, and laughter that will leave you on the edge of your seat, craving for more.

It's not just a show. It's a journey into the future, with Dan Shipper as the captain of the spaceship. So do yourself a favor. Hit like, smash subscribe, and strap in for the ride of your life. And now, without any further ado, let me just say, Dan, I'm absolutely hopelessly in love with you.